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  1. Date: Tue,  2 Mar 93 05:17:24    
  2. From: Space Digest maintainer <digests@isu.isunet.edu>
  3. Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu
  4. Subject: Space Digest V16 #250
  5. To: Space Digest Readers
  6. Precedence: bulk
  7.  
  8.  
  9. Space Digest                Tue,  2 Mar 93       Volume 16 : Issue 250
  10.  
  11. Today's Topics:
  12.                                 Blimps
  13.                            Bullets in Space
  14.                              Bussard GIF
  15.             Energy sources  Was: Re: Battery help needed!
  16.                    Help on Catching this REVISITED
  17.                 McElwaine disciplined! (somewhat long)
  18.                           Refueling in orbit
  19.                      Why Apollo didn't continue?
  20.  
  21.     Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
  22.     "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form
  23.     "Subscribe Space <your name>" to one of these addresses: listserv@uga
  24.     (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle
  25.     (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet).
  26. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  27.  
  28. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 17:01:27 GMT
  29. From: Frank Crary <fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
  30. Subject: Blimps
  31. Newsgroups: sci.space
  32.  
  33. In article <C34wnB.Hs2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes:
  34. >It would certianly be possible to actively heat the lifting gas.  However, given
  35. >that Mars has an atmosphere of CO2 and probably has plenty of native Hydrogen
  36. >available for use I don't forsee a real need for active heating.  Passive lift
  37. >should be just fine thank you.
  38.  
  39. There is a little hydrogen there (that we can currently detect), but it
  40. is extremely difficult to get at (it's mostly in the form of atmospheric
  41. water amounting to only a few parts per million.) There are theoretical
  42. reasons to expect alot more water, possibly in the form of premafrost or
  43. subsurface water tables. But none of these have been detected in any
  44. way. Until we know more about the planet, it's best to assume that
  45. water (and therefore hydrogen) isn't readily available. With alot
  46. of machinery and effort, you can get some. Producing one kilo of
  47. water would require over 50 kW-hr of input power...
  48.  
  49. >You don't really want a high performance balloon envelope to touch the ground.
  50. >Another good reason not to count on active heating for lift (or at least not
  51. >all of it).
  52.  
  53. The Russian Mars 94 balloon uses an interesting compromise: It has
  54. two envelopes, one holding enough helium to support the envelopes _only_
  55. (i.e. not enough to lift the payload), and a second envelope heated by
  56. sunlight. Together, they have enough lift to support the payload. So,
  57. during the day, the system would float freely; at night the hot gas
  58. envelope would cool, and the payload would land. The helium
  59. however, would hold the envelopes safely off the ground. The next morning
  60. as the sun heated the gas, the process would repeat.
  61.  
  62. >I would assume that for any near term dirigible one would use an electric
  63. >motor.  It might be powered by a fuel cell or nukes, but solar power seems
  64. >more likely.
  65.  
  66. If we are assuming a pre-existant base, I think chemical energy would
  67. be the best option: It's quite easy to seperate carbon dioxide into
  68. carbon monoxide and oxygen. It would be fairly easy for a base to
  69. produce, and exploration vehicles to burn, this sort of fuel.
  70.  
  71.                                                     Frank Crary
  72.                                                     CU Boulder
  73.  
  74. ------------------------------
  75.  
  76. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 93 14:37:04 GMT
  77. From: George Hastings <ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu>
  78. Subject: Bullets in Space
  79. Newsgroups: sci.space
  80.  
  81. Brandon France (fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu ) writes:
  82. > I just started reading this newsgroup so if this question has been asked
  83. > before please respond via email.
  84. > 
  85. > What would happen if an astronaut was in a geostationary orbit and fired
  86. > a rifle directly toward the earth?  What path would the bullet take?
  87. > Would the bullet actually hit the earth or would it assume some orbit?
  88. >  
  89. > Brandon
  90. > fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu
  91.  
  92.     Assuming that the rifle was pointed at right angles to
  93. the velocity vector, the bullet would not hit the Earth. The
  94. acceleration of the bullet toward the Earth would increase as
  95. the distance between the Earth and bullet decreased, but
  96. remember that the bullet is travelling along an orbital path
  97. sideways as it is going forward.
  98.     The path it would follow would "cut the corner" like a
  99. race car dropping down from the outside edge of the track to
  100. closer to the inside of the track. As it accelerated from the
  101. increasing pull of gravity it would reach its maximum velocity
  102. at its closest approach to the Earth's surface.
  103.     Then its path would begin to climb again, back toward
  104. the original orbital position. Du to the increased velocity, it
  105. would pass the original orbital altitude and continue some
  106. distance beyond before reaching it maximum orbital height and
  107. starting back to it low point again.
  108.     You would have succeeded in putting the bullet (and
  109. yourself) into elliptical rather than circular orbit.
  110.     Question back to you: if the bullet in its new orbit
  111. spends part of its time travelling faster than the original
  112. geo-synchronous speed and part of the time travelling slower
  113. than geo-synchronous speed, is its new orbital period still 24
  114. hours?
  115.  
  116. ---
  117.  ____________________________________________________________
  118. | George Hastings        ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu |  
  119. | Space Science Teacher        72407.22@compuserve.com      |  If it's not
  120. | Mathematics & Science Center     STAREACH BBS: 804-343-6533   |   FUN, it's
  121. | 2304 Hartman Street        OFFICE:       804-343-6525   |  probably not
  122. | Richmond, VA 23223        FAX:          804-343-6529   |    SCIENCE!
  123.  ------------------------------------------------------------
  124.  
  125. ------------------------------
  126.  
  127. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 20:13:17 PST
  128. From: Jason Cooper <lord@tradent.wimsey.com>
  129. Subject: Bussard GIF
  130. Newsgroups: sci.space
  131.  
  132. section 1 of uuencode 5.10 of file bussard.zip    by R.E.M.
  133.  
  134. begin 644 bussard.zip
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  506. MN[$?.[(GN[(O.[,WN[,_.[1'N[1/.[57N[5?.[9GN[9O.[=WN[=_.[B'N[B/
  507. M.[F7N[F?.[JGN[JO.[NWN[N_.[SK5D```#M02P$"%``*``````#.G5H:5#JL
  508. MN2=!```G00``#````````````"``````````15A00E-34D0N1TE&4$L%!@``
  509. 0```!``$`.@```%%!````````
  510. `
  511. end
  512. sum -r/size 12355/23180 section (from "begin" to "end")
  513. sum -r/size 35808/16801 entire input file
  514.  
  515. ------------------------------
  516.  
  517. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 15:17:18 GMT
  518. From: Herman Rubin <hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu>
  519. Subject: Energy sources  Was: Re: Battery help needed!
  520. Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.electronics,sci.aeronautics,sci.chem,sci.engr
  521.  
  522. In article <C34tIG.30n@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
  523. >In article <1993Feb26.153056.18059@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo) writes:
  524. >>I recall reading about iron-titanium-hydride (or some similar material)
  525. >>for storing H2 in a high energy density, low pressure, room temperature,
  526. >>mostly solid form...
  527.  
  528. >There has been experimental work on this kind of thing, but with the
  529. >possible exception of whatever's done inside nickel-hydrogen batteries,
  530. >I know of no operational systems using it.  My understanding is that
  531. >it is extremely heavy for the weight of hydrogen it carries.
  532.  
  533. I did some simple calculations, mainly to refute the environmentalists.
  534. From a weight standpoint, LH is obviously the best, but it is extremely
  535. high volume at any reasonable pressure.  For hydrogen compounds, on a
  536. per weight basis, methane checks in at 25% hydrogen.  The best that 
  537. inorganic hydrides can do comes from the light elements, with LiH being
  538. 14% H, BeH2 being 18%, BH3 21%.  Saturated hydrocarbons do fairly well,
  539. being at least 12.5% H, and gasoline (octane) being 15.8% H.
  540.  
  541. I do not know how much density of H can be maintained by the heavy
  542. hydrides, but as far as I know, liquid or solid hydrocarbons are 
  543. hard to beat, and liquids have other advantages.
  544. -- 
  545. Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
  546. Phone: (317)494-6054
  547. hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
  548. {purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
  549.  
  550. ------------------------------
  551.  
  552. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 16:37:45 GMT
  553. From: Rajesh Batra <rbatra@uceng.uc.edu>
  554. Subject: Help on Catching this REVISITED
  555. Newsgroups: sci.space
  556.  
  557. In article <C1Mx3z.7Lq@uceng.uc.edu> rbatra@uceng.uc.edu (Rajesh Batra)
  558. writes:
  559.  
  560. > Hi,
  561. >
  562. > Here's a problem that I'm just plain stuck on, see if you can help.
  563. >
  564. > Scenerio:  You're on the moon, a 1700 m/s container (containing ice)
  565. >which
  566.     The object will be travelling at more like 1500 m/s...
  567.                             -R.B.
  568. > weighs approximately 120 kg is hurled at you. How do you catch it such
  569. > that you can salvage the ice? You have free reign over the container-
  570. > hence the size/material.
  571.  
  572. ----------------------------
  573. Edward Ruden replies:
  574.  
  575. Launch the ice from space in a lunar orbit which is tangent to the 
  576. lunar surface at the orbit's perigee. This is possible since there is
  577. no atmosphere to bring the load down prematurely. Your "catcher" then,
  578. regardless of its nature,  can be laid out along a great length of
  579. the lunar surface since the load will be coming in horizontally.
  580. This will keep the decellaration of (and therefore forces on) the load
  581. to a minimum. A very desirable feature of the catcher would be that
  582. it be moving at about the same velocity as the load at the point of contact.
  583. this means, of course, it will have to run along and catch it before
  584. pulling it down to rest.
  585.  
  586. Another idea:
  587. The ice is launched as a sphere of, say, 1m diameter, and is 
  588. accurately aimed at a long, narrowly tapered conical hole in the lunar
  589. surface. The cone openning is about 10m in diameter, is heavily lined
  590. with steel, and sunk into solid bedrock for strength. The cone angle is
  591. sufficiently small that the ice sphere, coming in parrallel to the cone
  592. axis, will not dent the steel wall upon grazing angle impact. The ice,
  593. however, may at that point disinitigrate into ice cubes. The cone is used
  594. to inject the ice into a steel tube somewhat over 1m in diameter which is
  595. also sunk into the bedrock for strength. The tube is bent to give a radius
  596. of curvature of about 100 m. The centripital acceleration of the ice fragments
  597. will be on the order of 1000 g's. The tube can be built to withstand this
  598. since ice on steel has very little abrasiveness and the pressure is
  599. tolerable for steel in bedrock. The ice, however, will melt and vaporize
  600. from the friction. The tube can curve back on itself so that the H2O
  601. can race around in a loop until its kinectic energy is expended.
  602. Within the first second or less of injection, a vacuum tight gate valve
  603. closed off the conical injectors throat so that the water vapor doesn't
  604. escape.  The tube is kept warm enough to prevent condensation while 
  605. the water vapor is pumped out of the tube with a condensation (cryo)
  606. pump to slake the thirst of the colonists.
  607.  
  608. Side note: there may (still) be some advantage to having the ice
  609. come in horizontally by having the collection point at perigee. The
  610. steel ring could then be layed flat, with the tubing at a nominally 
  611. constant depth below the lunar surface. This reduces construction costs
  612. Also, if terminal guidance is needed for the ice to hit the hole,
  613. the carrier can release the ice about 1 km from the hole, give itself
  614. a small boost to miss the lunar surface, and return to space for reused.
  615.  
  616.  
  617.  
  618.                           Edward Ruden
  619.  
  620.  
  621. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  622.  
  623. Thanks Edward,
  624.  
  625.     As well as the many others who have e-mailed me with suggestions,
  626.  
  627.  
  628.     The solution I have been working on (mathematically) for feasibility
  629.     has been the funnel idea mentioned above. There are a few differences,
  630.     however.
  631.  
  632.     1) Rather than being injected into a circular steel tube, it will 
  633.     enter a vat of water (I'm still studying ice-water impacts (I've
  634.     found journal articles with solid-water impacts and am assuming that
  635.     ice will act in the same way- any suggestions appreciated)).
  636.     Hopefully, the water will absorb the impact.  From what I've
  637.     heard, a 45 caliber bullet traveling at about 240 m/s needs
  638.     16 inches of water to stop.
  639.  
  640.     2) The electrical engineers who are handling the moon's communication
  641.     network will already have a satellite in orbit, they will be willing
  642.     to track the trajectory of the ice, and notify my catcher where it
  643.     will land.  My catcher will move to the desired catch
  644.     location.  The catcher drives on a 100 meter diameter paved road- the
  645.     railgun people are confident that they can get the ice to land
  646.     somewhere within this hundred meters. The large funnel has pitch
  647.     adjustments as well.
  648.  
  649.     3) As mentioned by Edward above, it will have a valve at the entrance
  650.     of the funnel that will close immediately, to avoid loss due
  651.     to vaporization. 
  652.     
  653.     The nuclear engineers have plenty of heat they wish to rid themselves
  654.     of, so I can use that to increase pressure/temperature to turn
  655.     the ice shards back into water.
  656.  
  657.  
  658.     Originally, the idea was to catch the ice in orbit and build
  659.     a processing facility there. (The ice is being launched from the
  660.     North Pole of the MOON (presumably, ice was found there)).
  661.     This made sense, since the moon
  662.     was primarily a gas station on the way to Mars.  Unfortunately,
  663.     the RFP we received specified that the processing facility be
  664.     built at the equator.  We did not wish to maintain a catcher
  665.     around the orbit of the moon, since the orbit would be
  666.     difficult to keep for any length of time without fuel consumption.
  667.  
  668.  
  669.                 Again thanks for the great input!
  670.  
  671.                 Usenet is definitely the power of thousand
  672.                 thinkers!
  673.  
  674.  
  675.                     Rajesh Batra
  676.                     University of Cincinnati
  677.  
  678.                     rbatra@uceng.uc.edu
  679.  
  680. ------------------------------
  681.  
  682. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 15:37:42 GMT
  683. From: "Phil G. Fraering" <pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu>
  684. Subject: McElwaine disciplined! (somewhat long)
  685. Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle
  686.  
  687. carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
  688.  
  689. >In article <wiegand.730742470@lido16>, wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand) writes:
  690.  
  691. >If you do that, he interprets your returning his junk mail to him as
  692. >harassment and sends mail to you system manager asking that you be
  693. >denied access to the net.  I speak from experience here.  In my case,
  694. >he didn't seem to understand that when he sent mail to my system
  695. >manager (postmaster@sol1.gps.caltech.edu), that was just a forwarding
  696. >address to me.
  697.  
  698. So he goes around demanding that your net access be cut off if you send
  699. to him _once_ what he dumps onto tens of thousands of news feeds all around
  700. the world several times a month?
  701.  
  702.  
  703. If we reacted as he did, he wouldn't be able to use ground mail without
  704. a special note from his Congressman and his mother.
  705.  
  706. Who is this guy?
  707.  
  708. And I'm dying to know: was this Lydick fellow disciplined for his misuse
  709. of the net? ;-)
  710.  
  711. Seriously, speaking of misuse of the net, your message above was a little
  712. wide, and I had to reformat to be able to quote it without looking
  713. wierd. And: are you guys with vaxen more inconveinenced by this sort
  714. of thing than those of us using unix?
  715.  
  716. >Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
  717.  
  718. >Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
  719. >understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
  720. >unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
  721. >organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
  722. >hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
  723.  
  724. --
  725. Phil Fraering         |"...drag them, kicking and screaming,
  726. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|into the Century of the Fruitbat." - Terry Pratchett,
  727.                        _Reaper Man_
  728.  
  729. ------------------------------
  730.  
  731. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 16:44:45 GMT
  732. From: Frank Crary <fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
  733. Subject: Refueling in orbit
  734. Newsgroups: sci.space
  735.  
  736. In article <76619@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes:
  737. >>Well.  Would the phrase faster, cheaper, better come to mind?
  738. >>As TOm munoz pointed out,  the THrusters carry 6,500 lbm of fuel
  739. >>and weigh 5,000 lbm.   given the fact you are having to haul the
  740. >>thrusters back to orbit that's a lot of money.  at 10,000 dollars/pound.
  741. >>that's 50 million dollars.  Doesn't money mean anything to you?
  742.  
  743. >   Of course it does, but lives mean more. As I said, NASA chose the
  744. >   safer of two methods. You have not made any comment on that point.
  745.  
  746. From 1978 to the present, the Soviets (or Russians) have launched
  747. roughly one automated refueling mission per month. Out of over
  748. a hundred such missions, they have experienced one mechanical failure
  749. that damaged one of the station's station keeping motors and about
  750. half-a-dozen failures to dock properly which resulted in an aborted
  751. mission and a short delay in resupply. That's a ~95% reliability at
  752. keeping schedueles and over 99% reliability at avoiding serious 
  753. accidents. _None_ of the failures seriously threatened the crew.
  754. In light of this, I have trouble seeing how automated docking/refueling
  755. could be rejected as unsafe.
  756.  
  757.                                               Frank Crary
  758.                                               CU Boulder
  759.  
  760. ------------------------------
  761.  
  762. Date: 28 Feb 1993 16:12:56 GMT
  763. From: John F Carr <jfc@athena.mit.edu>
  764. Subject: Why Apollo didn't continue?
  765. Newsgroups: sci.space
  766.  
  767. I was born in 1967 so I didn't pay much attention to Apollo at the time,
  768. but I wrote a paper in high school on the political uses of the space
  769. program.  Doing research for this paper, I had a strong impression from
  770. reading about Apollo that the program had fulfilled its political purpose
  771. and could be allowed to die without making the US look bad.
  772.  
  773. --
  774.     John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
  775.  
  776. ------------------------------
  777.  
  778. End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 250
  779. ------------------------------
  780.