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  1. Date: Tue,  2 Mar 93 05:17:24    
  2. From: Space Digest maintainer <digests@isu.isunet.edu>
  3. Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu
  4. Subject: Space Digest V16 #250
  5. To: Space Digest Readers
  6. Precedence: bulk
  7.  
  8.  
  9. Space Digest                Tue,  2 Mar 93       Volume 16 : Issue 250
  10.  
  11. Today's Topics:
  12.                                 Blimps
  13.                            Bullets in Space
  14.                              Bussard GIF
  15.             Energy sources  Was: Re: Battery help needed!
  16.                    Help on Catching this REVISITED
  17.                 McElwaine disciplined! (somewhat long)
  18.                           Refueling in orbit
  19.                      Why Apollo didn't continue?
  20.  
  21.     Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
  22.     "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form
  23.     "Subscribe Space <your name>" to one of these addresses: listserv@uga
  24.     (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle
  25.     (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet).
  26. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  27.  
  28. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 17:01:27 GMT
  29. From: Frank Crary <fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
  30. Subject: Blimps
  31. Newsgroups: sci.space
  32.  
  33. In article <C34wnB.Hs2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes:
  34. >It would certianly be possible to actively heat the lifting gas.  However, given
  35. >that Mars has an atmosphere of CO2 and probably has plenty of native Hydrogen
  36. >available for use I don't forsee a real need for active heating.  Passive lift
  37. >should be just fine thank you.
  38.  
  39. There is a little hydrogen there (that we can currently detect), but it
  40. is extremely difficult to get at (it's mostly in the form of atmospheric
  41. water amounting to only a few parts per million.) There are theoretical
  42. reasons to expect alot more water, possibly in the form of premafrost or
  43. subsurface water tables. But none of these have been detected in any
  44. way. Until we know more about the planet, it's best to assume that
  45. water (and therefore hydrogen) isn't readily available. With alot
  46. of machinery and effort, you can get some. Producing one kilo of
  47. water would require over 50 kW-hr of input power...
  48.  
  49. >You don't really want a high performance balloon envelope to touch the ground.
  50. >Another good reason not to count on active heating for lift (or at least not
  51. >all of it).
  52.  
  53. The Russian Mars 94 balloon uses an interesting compromise: It has
  54. two envelopes, one holding enough helium to support the envelopes _only_
  55. (i.e. not enough to lift the payload), and a second envelope heated by
  56. sunlight. Together, they have enough lift to support the payload. So,
  57. during the day, the system would float freely; at night the hot gas
  58. envelope would cool, and the payload would land. The helium
  59. however, would hold the envelopes safely off the ground. The next morning
  60. as the sun heated the gas, the process would repeat.
  61.  
  62. >I would assume that for any near term dirigible one would use an electric
  63. >motor.  It might be powered by a fuel cell or nukes, but solar power seems
  64. >more likely.
  65.  
  66. If we are assuming a pre-existant base, I think chemical energy would
  67. be the best option: It's quite easy to seperate carbon dioxide into
  68. carbon monoxide and oxygen. It would be fairly easy for a base to
  69. produce, and exploration vehicles to burn, this sort of fuel.
  70.  
  71.                                                     Frank Crary
  72.                                                     CU Boulder
  73.  
  74. ------------------------------
  75.  
  76. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 93 14:37:04 GMT
  77. From: George Hastings <ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu>
  78. Subject: Bullets in Space
  79. Newsgroups: sci.space
  80.  
  81. Brandon France (fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu ) writes:
  82. > I just started reading this newsgroup so if this question has been asked
  83. > before please respond via email.
  84. > What would happen if an astronaut was in a geostationary orbit and fired
  85. > a rifle directly toward the earth?  What path would the bullet take?
  86. > Would the bullet actually hit the earth or would it assume some orbit?
  87. >  
  88. > Brandon
  89. > fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu
  90.  
  91.     Assuming that the rifle was pointed at right angles to
  92. the velocity vector, the bullet would not hit the Earth. The
  93. acceleration of the bullet toward the Earth would increase as
  94. the distance between the Earth and bullet decreased, but
  95. remember that the bullet is travelling along an orbital path
  96. sideways as it is going forward.
  97.     The path it would follow would "cut the corner" like a
  98. race car dropping down from the outside edge of the track to
  99. closer to the inside of the track. As it accelerated from the
  100. increasing pull of gravity it would reach its maximum velocity
  101. at its closest approach to the Earth's surface.
  102.     Then its path would begin to climb again, back toward
  103. the original orbital position. Du to the increased velocity, it
  104. would pass the original orbital altitude and continue some
  105. distance beyond before reaching it maximum orbital height and
  106. starting back to it low point again.
  107.     You would have succeeded in putting the bullet (and
  108. yourself) into elliptical rather than circular orbit.
  109.     Question back to you: if the bullet in its new orbit
  110. spends part of its time travelling faster than the original
  111. geo-synchronous speed and part of the time travelling slower
  112. than geo-synchronous speed, is its new orbital period still 24
  113. hours?
  114.  
  115. ---
  116.  ____________________________________________________________
  117. | George Hastings        ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu |  
  118. | Space Science Teacher        72407.22@compuserve.com      |  If it's not
  119. | Mathematics & Science Center     STAREACH BBS: 804-343-6533   |   FUN, it's
  120. | 2304 Hartman Street        OFFICE:       804-343-6525   |  probably not
  121. | Richmond, VA 23223        FAX:          804-343-6529   |    SCIENCE!
  122.  ------------------------------------------------------------
  123.  
  124. ------------------------------
  125.  
  126. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 20:13:17 PST
  127. From: Jason Cooper <lord@tradent.wimsey.com>
  128. Subject: Bussard GIF
  129. Newsgroups: sci.space
  130.  
  131. section 1 of uuencode 5.10 of file bussard.zip    by R.E.M.
  132.  
  133. begin 644 bussard.zip
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  505. MN[$?.[(GN[(O.[,WN[,_.[1'N[1/.[57N[5?.[9GN[9O.[=WN[=_.[B'N[B/
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  507. MN2=!```G00``#````````````"``````````15A00E-34D0N1TE&4$L%!@``
  508. 0```!``$`.@```%%!````````
  509. `
  510. end
  511. sum -r/size 12355/23180 section (from "begin" to "end")
  512. sum -r/size 35808/16801 entire input file
  513.  
  514. ------------------------------
  515.  
  516. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 15:17:18 GMT
  517. From: Herman Rubin <hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu>
  518. Subject: Energy sources  Was: Re: Battery help needed!
  519. Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.electronics,sci.aeronautics,sci.chem,sci.engr
  520.  
  521. In article <C34tIG.30n@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
  522. >In article <1993Feb26.153056.18059@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo) writes:
  523. >>I recall reading about iron-titanium-hydride (or some similar material)
  524. >>for storing H2 in a high energy density, low pressure, room temperature,
  525. >>mostly solid form...
  526.  
  527. >There has been experimental work on this kind of thing, but with the
  528. >possible exception of whatever's done inside nickel-hydrogen batteries,
  529. >I know of no operational systems using it.  My understanding is that
  530. >it is extremely heavy for the weight of hydrogen it carries.
  531.  
  532. I did some simple calculations, mainly to refute the environmentalists.
  533. From a weight standpoint, LH is obviously the best, but it is extremely
  534. high volume at any reasonable pressure.  For hydrogen compounds, on a
  535. per weight basis, methane checks in at 25% hydrogen.  The best that 
  536. inorganic hydrides can do comes from the light elements, with LiH being
  537. 14% H, BeH2 being 18%, BH3 21%.  Saturated hydrocarbons do fairly well,
  538. being at least 12.5% H, and gasoline (octane) being 15.8% H.
  539.  
  540. I do not know how much density of H can be maintained by the heavy
  541. hydrides, but as far as I know, liquid or solid hydrocarbons are 
  542. hard to beat, and liquids have other advantages.
  543. -- 
  544. Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
  545. Phone: (317)494-6054
  546. hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
  547. {purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
  548.  
  549. ------------------------------
  550.  
  551. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 16:37:45 GMT
  552. From: Rajesh Batra <rbatra@uceng.uc.edu>
  553. Subject: Help on Catching this REVISITED
  554. Newsgroups: sci.space
  555.  
  556. In article <C1Mx3z.7Lq@uceng.uc.edu> rbatra@uceng.uc.edu (Rajesh Batra)
  557. writes:
  558.  
  559. > Hi,
  560. >
  561. > Here's a problem that I'm just plain stuck on, see if you can help.
  562. >
  563. > Scenerio:  You're on the moon, a 1700 m/s container (containing ice)
  564. >which
  565.     The object will be travelling at more like 1500 m/s...
  566.                             -R.B.
  567. > weighs approximately 120 kg is hurled at you. How do you catch it such
  568. > that you can salvage the ice? You have free reign over the container-
  569. > hence the size/material.
  570.  
  571. ----------------------------
  572. Edward Ruden replies:
  573.  
  574. Launch the ice from space in a lunar orbit which is tangent to the 
  575. lunar surface at the orbit's perigee. This is possible since there is
  576. no atmosphere to bring the load down prematurely. Your "catcher" then,
  577. regardless of its nature,  can be laid out along a great length of
  578. the lunar surface since the load will be coming in horizontally.
  579. This will keep the decellaration of (and therefore forces on) the load
  580. to a minimum. A very desirable feature of the catcher would be that
  581. it be moving at about the same velocity as the load at the point of contact.
  582. this means, of course, it will have to run along and catch it before
  583. pulling it down to rest.
  584.  
  585. Another idea:
  586. The ice is launched as a sphere of, say, 1m diameter, and is 
  587. accurately aimed at a long, narrowly tapered conical hole in the lunar
  588. surface. The cone openning is about 10m in diameter, is heavily lined
  589. with steel, and sunk into solid bedrock for strength. The cone angle is
  590. sufficiently small that the ice sphere, coming in parrallel to the cone
  591. axis, will not dent the steel wall upon grazing angle impact. The ice,
  592. however, may at that point disinitigrate into ice cubes. The cone is used
  593. to inject the ice into a steel tube somewhat over 1m in diameter which is
  594. also sunk into the bedrock for strength. The tube is bent to give a radius
  595. of curvature of about 100 m. The centripital acceleration of the ice fragments
  596. will be on the order of 1000 g's. The tube can be built to withstand this
  597. since ice on steel has very little abrasiveness and the pressure is
  598. tolerable for steel in bedrock. The ice, however, will melt and vaporize
  599. from the friction. The tube can curve back on itself so that the H2O
  600. can race around in a loop until its kinectic energy is expended.
  601. Within the first second or less of injection, a vacuum tight gate valve
  602. closed off the conical injectors throat so that the water vapor doesn't
  603. escape.  The tube is kept warm enough to prevent condensation while 
  604. the water vapor is pumped out of the tube with a condensation (cryo)
  605. pump to slake the thirst of the colonists.
  606.  
  607. Side note: there may (still) be some advantage to having the ice
  608. come in horizontally by having the collection point at perigee. The
  609. steel ring could then be layed flat, with the tubing at a nominally 
  610. constant depth below the lunar surface. This reduces construction costs
  611. Also, if terminal guidance is needed for the ice to hit the hole,
  612. the carrier can release the ice about 1 km from the hole, give itself
  613. a small boost to miss the lunar surface, and return to space for reused.
  614.  
  615.  
  616.  
  617.                           Edward Ruden
  618.  
  619.  
  620. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  621.  
  622. Thanks Edward,
  623.  
  624.     As well as the many others who have e-mailed me with suggestions,
  625.  
  626.  
  627.     The solution I have been working on (mathematically) for feasibility
  628.     has been the funnel idea mentioned above. There are a few differences,
  629.     however.
  630.  
  631.     1) Rather than being injected into a circular steel tube, it will 
  632.     enter a vat of water (I'm still studying ice-water impacts (I've
  633.     found journal articles with solid-water impacts and am assuming that
  634.     ice will act in the same way- any suggestions appreciated)).
  635.     Hopefully, the water will absorb the impact.  From what I've
  636.     heard, a 45 caliber bullet traveling at about 240 m/s needs
  637.     16 inches of water to stop.
  638.  
  639.     2) The electrical engineers who are handling the moon's communication
  640.     network will already have a satellite in orbit, they will be willing
  641.     to track the trajectory of the ice, and notify my catcher where it
  642.     will land.  My catcher will move to the desired catch
  643.     location.  The catcher drives on a 100 meter diameter paved road- the
  644.     railgun people are confident that they can get the ice to land
  645.     somewhere within this hundred meters. The large funnel has pitch
  646.     adjustments as well.
  647.  
  648.     3) As mentioned by Edward above, it will have a valve at the entrance
  649.     of the funnel that will close immediately, to avoid loss due
  650.     to vaporization. 
  651.     
  652.     The nuclear engineers have plenty of heat they wish to rid themselves
  653.     of, so I can use that to increase pressure/temperature to turn
  654.     the ice shards back into water.
  655.  
  656.  
  657.     Originally, the idea was to catch the ice in orbit and build
  658.     a processing facility there. (The ice is being launched from the
  659.     North Pole of the MOON (presumably, ice was found there)).
  660.     This made sense, since the moon
  661.     was primarily a gas station on the way to Mars.  Unfortunately,
  662.     the RFP we received specified that the processing facility be
  663.     built at the equator.  We did not wish to maintain a catcher
  664.     around the orbit of the moon, since the orbit would be
  665.     difficult to keep for any length of time without fuel consumption.
  666.  
  667.  
  668.                 Again thanks for the great input!
  669.  
  670.                 Usenet is definitely the power of thousand
  671.                 thinkers!
  672.  
  673.  
  674.                     Rajesh Batra
  675.                     University of Cincinnati
  676.  
  677.                     rbatra@uceng.uc.edu
  678.  
  679. ------------------------------
  680.  
  681. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 15:37:42 GMT
  682. From: "Phil G. Fraering" <pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu>
  683. Subject: McElwaine disciplined! (somewhat long)
  684. Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle
  685.  
  686. carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
  687.  
  688. >In article <wiegand.730742470@lido16>, wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand) writes:
  689.  
  690. >If you do that, he interprets your returning his junk mail to him as
  691. >harassment and sends mail to you system manager asking that you be
  692. >denied access to the net.  I speak from experience here.  In my case,
  693. >he didn't seem to understand that when he sent mail to my system
  694. >manager (postmaster@sol1.gps.caltech.edu), that was just a forwarding
  695. >address to me.
  696.  
  697. So he goes around demanding that your net access be cut off if you send
  698. to him _once_ what he dumps onto tens of thousands of news feeds all around
  699. the world several times a month?
  700.  
  701.  
  702. If we reacted as he did, he wouldn't be able to use ground mail without
  703. a special note from his Congressman and his mother.
  704.  
  705. Who is this guy?
  706.  
  707. And I'm dying to know: was this Lydick fellow disciplined for his misuse
  708. of the net? ;-)
  709.  
  710. Seriously, speaking of misuse of the net, your message above was a little
  711. wide, and I had to reformat to be able to quote it without looking
  712. wierd. And: are you guys with vaxen more inconveinenced by this sort
  713. of thing than those of us using unix?
  714.  
  715. >Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
  716.  
  717. >Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
  718. >understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
  719. >unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
  720. >organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
  721. >hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
  722.  
  723. --
  724. Phil Fraering         |"...drag them, kicking and screaming,
  725. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|into the Century of the Fruitbat." - Terry Pratchett,
  726.                        _Reaper Man_
  727.  
  728. ------------------------------
  729.  
  730. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 16:44:45 GMT
  731. From: Frank Crary <fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
  732. Subject: Refueling in orbit
  733. Newsgroups: sci.space
  734.  
  735. In article <76619@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes:
  736. >>Well.  Would the phrase faster, cheaper, better come to mind?
  737. >>As TOm munoz pointed out,  the THrusters carry 6,500 lbm of fuel
  738. >>and weigh 5,000 lbm.   given the fact you are having to haul the
  739. >>thrusters back to orbit that's a lot of money.  at 10,000 dollars/pound.
  740. >>that's 50 million dollars.  Doesn't money mean anything to you?
  741.  
  742. >   Of course it does, but lives mean more. As I said, NASA chose the
  743. >   safer of two methods. You have not made any comment on that point.
  744.  
  745. From 1978 to the present, the Soviets (or Russians) have launched
  746. roughly one automated refueling mission per month. Out of over
  747. a hundred such missions, they have experienced one mechanical failure
  748. that damaged one of the station's station keeping motors and about
  749. half-a-dozen failures to dock properly which resulted in an aborted
  750. mission and a short delay in resupply. That's a ~95% reliability at
  751. keeping schedueles and over 99% reliability at avoiding serious 
  752. accidents. _None_ of the failures seriously threatened the crew.
  753. In light of this, I have trouble seeing how automated docking/refueling
  754. could be rejected as unsafe.
  755.  
  756.                                               Frank Crary
  757.                                               CU Boulder
  758.  
  759. ------------------------------
  760.  
  761. Date: 28 Feb 1993 16:12:56 GMT
  762. From: John F Carr <jfc@athena.mit.edu>
  763. Subject: Why Apollo didn't continue?
  764. Newsgroups: sci.space
  765.  
  766. I was born in 1967 so I didn't pay much attention to Apollo at the time,
  767. but I wrote a paper in high school on the political uses of the space
  768. program.  Doing research for this paper, I had a strong impression from
  769. reading about Apollo that the program had fulfilled its political purpose
  770. and could be allowed to die without making the US look bad.
  771.  
  772. --
  773.     John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
  774.  
  775. ------------------------------
  776.  
  777. End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 250
  778. ------------------------------
  779.